Scoutmaster Musings

I find kids in general (scouts in particular) are fantastic when they are self motivated. My philosophy is give them the tools they need and get out of their way. 60 years ago the AVERAGE age for eagle was 14.8. So eagle at 14 back then would not have been unusual. And you don't have to stop being a scout when you get eagle. But if you think you might want to do sports, or other stuff, getting your eagle while it is your top priority is a good thing, in my opinion. I have known too many boys star by 13 or 14 held back by seemingly well intended leaders, who got distracted by high school, sports, girls, and did not get eagle. So get it while YOU are motivated. Instead of a scoutmaster assigned project, talk to your SPL about a leadership position. Or check with committee chair, I find a Troop whose values align with yours. Good Luck!

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I'm sorry you are experiencing this but it may teach you some lessons that will be useful later in life.

My suggestion to you is to request a Scoutmaster conference and politely ask what options you have for meeting the position of responsibility or Scoutmaster approved project in the next 4-6 months. Then listen respectfully. Take notes even.

If the answer is nothing or some variation on you are not responsible enough or not old enough, your job is done. This becomes an issue for adults. The only additional step you should take is to ensure your Scout book is initialed and dated for all advancement that you have completed. Make sure you have your blue card or pocket certificate for any merit badges. This will smooth the transfer if you need to move to a new unit.

Your parents should become familiar with the Guide to Advancement and ask for a meeting with the troop Committee Chair. This should be face to face, no phone or email.

The Guide to Advancement:  goo.gl/mWsG6n

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As a Boy Scout parent and a current Cub Master the hardest thing to find in scouts is a motivated scout.  Encourage the scout to continue rather than hinder them.  Who am I to judge if a boy earns his eagle at 13?  They are the one doing the work.  Especially the motivated ones.  How many boys are drug along by a parent to earn their eagle at 18 because mom or dad wanted them to get it. A relative recently turned 18 with only 3 merit badges and an Eagle Board of review to go.  He even did the project.  Why did he fail?  Because he didn't care.

If a boy wants to have a leadership position, give it to them.  He will undoubtedly encounter challenges.  So what!  As adults we learn from our failures and our successes.  Give the boy an opportunity to lead and learn. My son is 11 and is excited to be in scouts.  41 merit badges and First Class so far.  He is a Den Chief and the Patrol Leader.  He likes and wants the responsibility.

Keep the boys excited.  Let them lead and advance.

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It's super to see a motivated, involved scout like you appear to be!
The bottom line is that your scoutmaster is completely wrong in saying you are going too fast - there is no "too fast" in Scouting.  His job is to help you move forward, not hold you back.

To reach Star, you need to serve in a position for 4 months.  The leadership project option is for special circumstances, such as no positions being available.  You should be the Patrol Leader for your patrol - talk to your patrolmates and have them elect you as their leader for 4 months.  Or, find out which troop positions are open and ask your SPL to fill one of them.

The SPL should be filling these positions, but it sounds like your scoutmaster is assigning these positions - that is also not right.  Van Donley's advice to get a scoutmaster conference is right on.

See this page.

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In my son's troop all leadership positions are for the year.   They also require that the scout attend summer camp in order to be nominated for the position.  This severely hinders progress of several scouts, but the adult leaders do not see it this way. I think it is great when scouts motivate themselves.  My son is that way when it comes to merit badges, but some rank related items are the bane of his existence (swim test).  I would recommend talking to the scoutmaster again and maybe the troop committee.  No matter what, a scout's progress is up to the scout and not the adults in the troop.  If all else fails, talk to the District Executive about maybe finding a Cub Scout pack that needs a Den Chief.  That would be a great position for a motivated scout.

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I'm in strong agreement with Scouter Paul above but need to clarify one thing.  PLs are elected by their patrol members.   The SPL chooses his own ASPL and runs the PLC.  The other Troop positions are filled and managed by the ASPL.  Some positions like Den Chief and JASM are managed by the adults but these are somewhat rare.  Den Chief is harder than it sounds, btw.

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Robert,

I commend your focus and passion for advancing in rank. As the father of two Eagle Scouts, you will move ahead at the pace that YOU are capable of, not the pace that is imposed by your Scoutmaster. I would encourage you to talk to the SPL to see what leadership positions the Troop needs filled (QM, Librarian, Webmaster - check your Handbook for qualified positions to reach Star). Have the SPL talk to your Scoutmaster about filling the position. If the Scoutmaster still is an obstacle, ask your parents to join you in a conversation with the Committee Chair or the COR. I hope that you are successful on your quest to earn Eagle Scout!

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Hello everyone,Robert is my son and I thank you all for the input and encouragement. As a parent who is also advancement chair for the troop, scouting has shown me my son's focus and I am extremely proud of his tenacity.  Taking your advice, my son requested another SM conference but in our presence. We met with the SM last night.  He finally agreed to review my son's proposal and share it with the ASMs and the committee-no promises were made as he feels my son should wait for a position. Will keep you all posted.  On a side note, our troop does not run by the book; unfortunately.All positions are elected by scouts and sometimes positions are appointed by SM/ASM regardless of voting outcome or rank needed. This is something I have been quite upset about since I am familiar with the advancement guidelines and SM Handbook. Although I have addressed my concerns, I am the minority in the group and my suggestions based on the handbook have been dismissed.

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It sounds like you might have a Scoutmaster who would rather be the Senior Patrol Leader.

My guess is that the promise to check with the Assistant Scoutmasters and committee is just a dodge. They really don't play a role in this. If you don't get an answer in a week, that is your answer.

I would schedule a time to speak face-to-face with your Committee Chair outside of a regular meeting night. If a satisfactory solution is not reached, it is time to start shopping for a unit to transfer to or start a new unit.

It is possible to stay and try to "fight the system." I've done both and my experience is that starting a new unit is far easier than fixing a unit with leaders that believe they know the right way to do things despite 100 years of history to the contrary.

Good luck and good Scouting!

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I commend you on your commitment and drive.  
I have seen this on our own troop and have to remind myself and other leaders that every boy moves at their own pace, dictated by maturity and drive.  
It is not our job to hinder this, but rather to support it.  
If all advancements are achieved as they are spelled out in the book, it is very easy for an active scout to achieve Eagle at the age of 14.  It is not up to the Scoutmaster to change this.
Kindly remind your leader that you are following the rules and doing everything right, he should be helping you move forward, not holding you back.
I hope he changes his mind, and you enjoy your trail to Eagle  

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Here is a counter to the trending thinking above.  I don't know Robert or his troop, so I am merely throwing out a possibility.  Perhaps the scoutmaster thinks that the scout in this case has had a "soft" run through the ranks and merits and needs to slow up to grow in maturity, leadership ability, sharpen skills, etc. before he is ready to get into Eagle mode.  I noticed that Robert's age was not listed, only the length of time he has been in a troop. The scoutmaster may be trying to protect the brand and value of Eagle Scout by trying to slow up this young man's progress. I also notice that Robert's dad is the advancement chair.  There could be backbench criticism like "why is his Little Johnny advancing so much faster than my Little Jimmy?".  There may be good reasons for the scoutmaster to slow up speed of progress.  I have parents who think their Little Johnnies are more ready to make an Eagle Run than I think they are.  When that is the case,I stall for time to let them develop.

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you can never go to fast!! people like me want to get to eagle rank to. Im a second class scout and need my bourd of revew done for first class. if you want to just get it done do it!! sometimes its ok not to listen to your scout master in these surcumstances.

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I read all the comments here and there are many great ideas but thought I would throw my 2 cents in... Now that you have had a meeting with the SM once you have a reply you need to rally look at that reply. Was it like the one comment, a SM that is reliving his scout career or may be lack of one? A SM that just won't follow the rules because he " knows better "? Once you have the decision you really have 3 choices, keep head butting with the SM, go over the SM's head to the committee chair or district scout executive, or change Troops if there are more local troops. The path you choose depends on your relationships in the troop and if you want to possibly damage them in conflict. As an ASM and Adv chair ouir Troop has a near 100% eagle rate ( for those who really want it ) the job becomes much harder once boys hit 16 with drivers lic. Jobs and Girls all competing for a young man's time. one last, if your son is 11 or 12 I suggest slow down a little, 13 or older time to decide a path

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Use the current rule book to make the decisions. The  2015 Guide to Advancement is the current BSA rule book and it is available online in a pdf format for free. This book gets updated every couple years.  Scouts advance at their own pace. Scoutmasters who want to hold scouts back need to learn the rules! If this scoutmaster doesn't follow the program and the committee chairman does not help, it is time to find a unit that knows and follows the program. Good luck Robert!  The world needs more goal setting and goal achieving people!  Keep going strong!

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Hey Gang,
Coming from a scout, myself, I understand what you are going through. i made star scout a year and a half after joining my troop, holding the same ambitions you did. I then realized that I needed to SLOW DOWN. I just turned 15, i am currently the SPL of  my troop, and i am one merit badge away from eagle scout. when i was 12,   i got some awesome advice from an eagle scout from my troop. he got his eagle in 2010, because he thought it would be good to get it on the 100th anniversary of scouting. At his Eagle COH i asked him if there was one thing he could take back. Of course, he said he wished he slowed down. He was 14 at the time and once he finished eagle, he spent his last 4 years bored doing nothing but palms. Awesome achievement, but what matters is that you get the rank. Being a little competitive is fun, but stop and smell the roses sometimes, OK? Enjoy scouting. its an experience that not a lot of others get to enjoy as thoroughly as yourself.
All the best,
Elijah

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Thank you all.We met with the SM at Robert's request.The SM agreed to review his proposal;made no promises.I am the mother and advancement chair for the unit.I have stepped away to allow my son to assert himself if he truly wants this.Robert actually has not had a "soft" run through his rank.He chose to attend two summer camps to work towards his achievements.He also plans to go to Winter Camp.He is passionate about Scouting and wants to continue beyond Eagle.22/25 MB have been completed with BSA counselors outside the troop.He is 12,but other scouts are 11 and were SM appointed as a Scout and Tenderfoot rank.I think this is where he is frustrated/confused.I believe age is not an issue here;skill either since requirements have been met and signed for rank.As an advancement chair I want to be objective keep the spirit and integrity of scouting by following the handbook.As a parent,I see my child motivated toward something positive and I'm concerned his motivation will be stifled.

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I am a Scoutmaster. Please remember it is not the Scoutmaster who runs the Troop it is the Troop Committee, Yes I know it is boy lead. But no youth should be held back because of his age. I have seen youth ages from 12 to 14 who have been better leaders than the older Scouts. In my view if you have fulfilled all prerequisites and time in rank to be advanced and the Scoutmaster holds back a youth the Committee and the Chartered Organization should dismissed him as Scoutmaster and find someone else. If this is not done then do what I did not do and find another Troop I made it to Life Scout ran into some problems with Troop members and faded away from Scouts and regret that decision. There is no reason to hold back a Scout.

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As a FIRST CLASS scout I do not see how you can apply for any project related to the rank of Eagle Scout.  Unless I am misunderstanding the original comment.  You would need to become a Star, then a Life Scout first, then meet with whoever in your troop/area/district is an Eagle mentor or guide.  According to the BSA website, the only age restriction is that you must complete your Eagle board of review and any requirement for Palms before you are 18.  Also, my son did a few years as a Den Chief for his Cub Scout Pack which also fulfills leadership and rank advancement positions.  You can even earn cords to wear on your uniform if you go through training that is offered in your area (sometimes by troops or at a Scouting University if one is available in your area). Even without the technical training I am sure most Packs would love the volunteering, time and enthusiasm you would offer.  I know my son even brought some of his scouting brothers with him which was really appreciated by the Cubmaster and the den leaders!
!

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Robert,
     You and your mother "hang in there".  As another post mentioned, if you are not getting anywhere after all the great advice given here, then consider going to another troop.   If you are being overlooked (or blatantly wronged) things may not change. I am sure that you have friends in the troop, but you are self-motivated, probably friendly and will make new friends in another troop.  You have only been in 9 months and many boys seem to come after 6th grade, so you probably wouldn't be the only newer one.  We had a young man in our troop years ago whose mother felt that her son was also being passed over or not treated fairly and they did just that.  He joined another troop nearby and went on to Eagle, went to Philmont in Arizona, and now is joining the fire cadet program through Explorers (BSA).
Good luck!
            ~ Susan (scout mom)

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Robert - GO FOR IT!

Elijah - there are other exciting things to do once you have become an Eagle Scout (perhaps before).  Consider an Eagle-sized project to help the environment - and earn the Hornaday Badge.  IN 2014 there were 52,180 new Eagle Scouts - and only 115 Hornaday Badges! If you complete 3 projects (in the 8 categories), you can earn the Hornaday Bronze Medal (only 1 awarded in 2014) - or 4 projects to receive the Hornaday Silver Medal.  Only 7 of these prestigious awards were issued last year!  Write to me at HornadayAdvisor@gmail.com

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Move to a different troop with a different Scoutmaster. If the Scoutmaster is holding you back, get a different Scoutmaster. It's that simple. As an adult, you will find that the paths to your future success are blocked due to problems that CAN be solved! Part of becoming an responsible adult is finding the ways to get around those blocks to ensure your continued success. I hope this helps!

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Robert,
Glad to hear you are a motivated scout!  It is great to hear of a young man with such ambitions.  As an Eagle Scout mom I completely understand where you are coming from.  My son achieved his Eagle Rank at age 14. Many adults in his troop were surprised by this, but if you look at the timing in Rank Advancements, it is very much achievable.  He recently finished his term as SPL for his troop and is currently OA rep.  When he crossed over from Cub Scouts, he was given advice by some older scouts and scouters to keep working on merit badges and work through the rank advancements when you are young, generally not as busy and before the "smells" kick in (mainly gasoline and perfume). I have seen so many scouts that procrastinate on doing either badges or rank requirements that end becoming a "Life for life".  My son is now 16 and keeps busy with academics and athletics as well as continuing to work on his Eagle Palms.   Don't let anyone squash your ambitions!

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My best advice to you is to find a local CubScout Pack and ask one of the Den Leaders if you might help by being their Den Chief.  After finding a Den to Chief, ask the Cub Master if you might be a Den Chief for the Den Leader who has already accepted you.  That being done go to your Scoutmaster and ask for appointment as a Den Chief to that Pack and Den.  You will already have the support of other leaders and if that doesn't do it you might ask for a meeting with your parents and the Scoutmaster to find out what the problem is and how you can over come it. You must have held at least assistant leader roles in the troop to become first class so there must be something going on you don't know about.  Just don't let this stop you and keep on scouting.

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I have been the advancement chair for many years and I love scouts like you.  You are a challenge for the adult leadership.   I advise scouts like you that now you are first class I want you to stop, take a deep breath and have some fun. You need some time to consolidate all the new skills you have just learned and to learn how to teach them to others. I would advise you to ask to be a patrol leader, troop quartermaster or troop scribe.  I do not believe that first class scouts should be given a project to do rather than a position of responsibility.  You need to learn leadership skills now which may take a while.  This may be why your scoutmaster is not as quick to let you advance further at this time. You also need to work on merit badges both required and nonrequired. Please do not try for your goal of Eagle at 14 as in your rush to get there you will miss a lot of fun stuff and you will not really appreciate your success as much as you will at 16 to 18 years old.

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Robert,
My son was 12.7 when he became life. His SM,former SM and District Advancement all said he was too young to progress.  They all held him up. He like you was not happy about it.  But during the year and half they made him wait, he grew.  Most scouts Eagle project are about 100-150 hours.  His ended up at 601. He would tell you that them making him wait was one of the best things Scouts could have done for him.  He was advancing but was missing out on so much of the fun that Scouting offers. When he finally slowed down, he realized all of the other stuff that he missed.  He slowed down and he would tell you the same. In the end your ScoutMaster has a reason, he knows your better than we do.  I'm not going to doubt a SM, I've seen too many boys that were not told no when they were not ready. Many post say you should switch Troops, HUH?!  Part of this whole process is growing into a young man.  You are going to have issues like this happen later in life, your going to have issues where a teacher, a boss, a spouse is going to tell you no.  Do you just run and get the answer you want?  For Star, Life and Eagle you need to do 4/6 and 6 months of leadership.  Is it possible that the boys you would be leading have expressed a concern that they don't think your ready?  Leadership doesn't come easy, it has to be earned.  You are being told to wait by your SM, may I suggest that you yield to your SM, work on merit badges.  You will advance, show some faith in your SM. Good Luck.

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As a Scoutmaster, I'm very supportive of not slowing down a boy and, if he's done what the rank requirement calls for, he's "ready" to move forward.  I would never hold a Scout back.  Now, having said that, I have a young Scout in the troop that actively avoids leadership positions and has requested that I assign him a project to qualify for Star rank.  I've refused because the boy simply will not seek a leadership position.  I might feel differently if he was on the ballot each time (every six months) and simply wasn't elected.  As an aside, t leadership project cannot be used in lieu of the POR time for Eagle.

In the situation I describe above, I've been very transparent both with the Scout and his parents - the parents are fully supportive.  The Scout less so.

So... am I holding the boy back? Certainly not.  But I'd bet that some would say yes.  The longer I spend as a SM (3 yrs now), the more I believe in the value in a leadership position.

fwiw.

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As a 14 year old Eagle scout I would suggest becoming a Den Chief.  I did it for three years. I was never a patrol leader but served as Senior Patrol leader. Junior Assistant
Scoutmaster and Instructor after becoming an Eagle.

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I can see both sides of this issue.  As a parent of 2 Eagles who became ASM's on their 18th birthday, a Merit Badge counselor and a Committee Member, I have seen boys whose parents are leaders in the troop and help their sons move ahead but do not give the same opportunities to the rest of the boys in the troop.  I had a young man who was an 11 yr old Life Scout in my last Indian Lore merit badge class who could not thread a needle, tie a square knot, or use scissors.  He would not listen or and seemed unable to follow basic instructions (but mom was there to "help" him do it).  The boy's Grandfather is his Scoutmaster.  In the same class, I had a 14 yr old who was upset because he was being told he was moving too fast to be a Star Scout, but he had some very advanced leadership skills and helped the rest of the boys complete tasks using EDGE.  The Life Scout did not know what EDGE meant.  I did not sign the 11 yr old's card as he did not do the work for the badge. Found out a week later that Grandpa has signed him off.

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As a recently new eagle scout, trust me, it happens. When I got my life at 13, my scoutmaster, and the ASM's held me back. I got my first class at 11 as well, don't let it stop you. Try looking for leadership opportunities from other adults or the ASM in the troop. At the least, you can keep working on those merit badges. Good luck

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I am 13.5 when I earned life. If your Scoutmaster is holding you back try talking to someone at your council or district. i am in the Robert L. Scott district and I am 2 merit badges and my project from eagle. My Scoutmaster said just to make sure I am still learning and not just filling out paper. I hope this helps

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